Nandita Das
Nandita Das has been called a filmstar 'with a social conscience, more keen to talk about women's empowerment and human rights than participate in the glamour of Bollywood. CNN's Anjali Rao catches up with Das, for the show CNN Talk Asia, in a sound studio as she is post-producing her directorial movie debut In Such Times. She tells Rao about her new film project, her controversial choice of film roles in Fire and Bawandar, an emotional visit to Sri Lanka in the aftermath of the Tsunami, and the honor of being a juror at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival.
So when most people around the world think of Indian cinema, I guess you know, automatically Bollywood springs to mind. As an Indian actress, though, you don't seem to want any part of the Bollywood, sort of you know, saccharine sugarness, do you think that's true?
I didn't want to ever be an actor to begin with, so my journey was, you kind of stumbled upon acting and you think well, it's interesting, it's another world, there are stories you can tell, you can be part of these wonderful stories, and that's how I've seen my career. So, I haven't really not wanted to do Bollywood, but yes, there's certain kind of cinema that I don't relate to. I didn't even grow up watching them. So when you don't watch them, you don't look at it and say, Ah I want to be there, you don't want to be there. So it's not a great struggle. And often people misunderstand - they think you kind of look down upon Bollywood, but it's one part of Indian cinema. Indian cinema is larger than that.
What do you think then about today's crop of Bollywood bunnies because you're just so not like them at all?
So you want me to just make lots of enemies and basically never do a…
So now we know what you think of the Bollywood bunnies then, if you're going to make enemies.
Well, I said nothing. No I mean I think it's everyone's choice. It's really… there should be that much free will to live your own live by your own terms and they are doing what they think works for them and I'm doing what I think. And it's been 10 years that I've done films and I still get these questions, people still ask me the same questions in every interview or even otherwise, so why don't you do a Bollywood film? Why don't you live in Bombay, this is where all the action is? But it's again, the choices I've made, I'm not saying everything good has happened because of that, I have lost out on work, because you have to have more visibility, you have to be more marketable. Even to get good roles in good films. So sometimes I do feel, mmm, well, I wish I could do that role. But then you don't get it all. I mean the choices that you make, then you get things according to that, and I think I've gained a lot of sanity, a lot of peace by being away from a certain system, which otherwise I think makes you fairly insecure, and you're on the edge. It's not just song and dance per se. But the whole lack of realism that I think I look for in films…the way women characters are portrayed, the stories people want to tell and hear. So it's a different world.
You started your acting career relatively late by Bollywood standards, anyway. Up until then, you'd been doing social work, professionally. How did you make the transition from doing that, to being cast in a major role in Deepa Mehta's Fire?
It wasn't really a transition. It was another, I don't know, medium of expression. It was just another way of telling things that one wanted to because even in social work, the work that I was doing was mostly about communication. But acting was also in a way it was another medium to say all those things. And that's why the choice of films. That's why the kind of films that I've chosen are very much in sync with my other concerns, my other interests. What do you make of all the controversy that was sparked by Fire?
How can you talk about homosexuality in a society that would rather not talk about it. So in a way I think it was good that such debates happened, where people were forced to discuss it. And not just about lesbian relationship, but about questioning arranged marriage system, talking lack of choices that women have. Even talking about freedom of expression because when the handful of people started attacking, there were people who just took to the streets who just said that, 'Are you guys going to decide what we must see or what is good enough?' I think that debate, not only just helped the film, but helped the larger cause of these kind of issues… issues on women and freedom of expression etc. So I think it was a good thing.
The next part of the trilogy was 1947: Earth which was a lot less provocative. Do you think that was perhaps Deepa Mehta's way of saying, “Alright, alright. I'll just relent a little bit”?
No, no, but it's strange what makes a controversy. Earth talks about how religion is used by politics and you know, how religious politics is used to divide people. What happened during partition and how people who have no role to play in these decisions become victims of it. I think that in today's time, that should be as controversial as anything else. But because it had Aamir Khan and it had songs, probably they said okay, it's sort of commercial, and nobody really knew what label to put on it.
You were cast in the final part of the trilogy, Water. Shaved your head for the role. But then you didn't actually get to do the role. What happened?
This is a question for Deepa Mehta, but… well initially I was upset because even when they were doing it the second time around, I was going to be part of it. And that's a decision she took, and she knows best, and I did express the fact that I was connected to the script right from the beginning so there was an emotional attachment, there was a professional loss, there was at a personal level, also it was part of the larger fight that I've been in, in the sense of this whole thing about freedom of expression, this cultural policing that's been happening for long. So at many levels there were regrets of not being able to be part of it.
At many levels I have regrets of not being able to be part of Water
Because of the movies and particularly Fire, she got death threats, effigies were burned of her in the streets, I mean it was full-on at the time. I still really remember that. Were you ever afraid for your safety, having played such a large role in the previous two movies?
Yes, there were threats and in fact, during Fire, when that whole attack happened, I had a policeman outside my door, in the hotel and after that, at home in Delhi. So there was a bit of a tension. In fact my parents always say that, look Deepa Mehta is going to go back to Toronto, she has a big house, there are people protecting it. You live on your own, stop being foolish. But then my parents are the ones who, in a way, taught me to speak out and I tell them, 'too late, now you've taught me all the wrong things, I'm sticking to it'. So I don't think the threats were bad enough to worry too much and I think when you kind of take a stand or jump into fire, then you go all the way, and no pun intended. ( For More: http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/features/2008/05/05/3843/ )
Nandita Das has been called a filmstar 'with a social conscience, more keen to talk about women's empowerment and human rights than participate in the glamour of Bollywood. CNN's Anjali Rao catches up with Das, for the show CNN Talk Asia, in a sound studio as she is post-producing her directorial movie debut In Such Times. She tells Rao about her new film project, her controversial choice of film roles in Fire and Bawandar, an emotional visit to Sri Lanka in the aftermath of the Tsunami, and the honor of being a juror at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival.
So when most people around the world think of Indian cinema, I guess you know, automatically Bollywood springs to mind. As an Indian actress, though, you don't seem to want any part of the Bollywood, sort of you know, saccharine sugarness, do you think that's true?
I didn't want to ever be an actor to begin with, so my journey was, you kind of stumbled upon acting and you think well, it's interesting, it's another world, there are stories you can tell, you can be part of these wonderful stories, and that's how I've seen my career. So, I haven't really not wanted to do Bollywood, but yes, there's certain kind of cinema that I don't relate to. I didn't even grow up watching them. So when you don't watch them, you don't look at it and say, Ah I want to be there, you don't want to be there. So it's not a great struggle. And often people misunderstand - they think you kind of look down upon Bollywood, but it's one part of Indian cinema. Indian cinema is larger than that.
What do you think then about today's crop of Bollywood bunnies because you're just so not like them at all?
So you want me to just make lots of enemies and basically never do a…
So now we know what you think of the Bollywood bunnies then, if you're going to make enemies.
Well, I said nothing. No I mean I think it's everyone's choice. It's really… there should be that much free will to live your own live by your own terms and they are doing what they think works for them and I'm doing what I think. And it's been 10 years that I've done films and I still get these questions, people still ask me the same questions in every interview or even otherwise, so why don't you do a Bollywood film? Why don't you live in Bombay, this is where all the action is? But it's again, the choices I've made, I'm not saying everything good has happened because of that, I have lost out on work, because you have to have more visibility, you have to be more marketable. Even to get good roles in good films. So sometimes I do feel, mmm, well, I wish I could do that role. But then you don't get it all. I mean the choices that you make, then you get things according to that, and I think I've gained a lot of sanity, a lot of peace by being away from a certain system, which otherwise I think makes you fairly insecure, and you're on the edge. It's not just song and dance per se. But the whole lack of realism that I think I look for in films…the way women characters are portrayed, the stories people want to tell and hear. So it's a different world.
You started your acting career relatively late by Bollywood standards, anyway. Up until then, you'd been doing social work, professionally. How did you make the transition from doing that, to being cast in a major role in Deepa Mehta's Fire?
It wasn't really a transition. It was another, I don't know, medium of expression. It was just another way of telling things that one wanted to because even in social work, the work that I was doing was mostly about communication. But acting was also in a way it was another medium to say all those things. And that's why the choice of films. That's why the kind of films that I've chosen are very much in sync with my other concerns, my other interests. What do you make of all the controversy that was sparked by Fire?
How can you talk about homosexuality in a society that would rather not talk about it. So in a way I think it was good that such debates happened, where people were forced to discuss it. And not just about lesbian relationship, but about questioning arranged marriage system, talking lack of choices that women have. Even talking about freedom of expression because when the handful of people started attacking, there were people who just took to the streets who just said that, 'Are you guys going to decide what we must see or what is good enough?' I think that debate, not only just helped the film, but helped the larger cause of these kind of issues… issues on women and freedom of expression etc. So I think it was a good thing.
The next part of the trilogy was 1947: Earth which was a lot less provocative. Do you think that was perhaps Deepa Mehta's way of saying, “Alright, alright. I'll just relent a little bit”?
No, no, but it's strange what makes a controversy. Earth talks about how religion is used by politics and you know, how religious politics is used to divide people. What happened during partition and how people who have no role to play in these decisions become victims of it. I think that in today's time, that should be as controversial as anything else. But because it had Aamir Khan and it had songs, probably they said okay, it's sort of commercial, and nobody really knew what label to put on it.
You were cast in the final part of the trilogy, Water. Shaved your head for the role. But then you didn't actually get to do the role. What happened?
This is a question for Deepa Mehta, but… well initially I was upset because even when they were doing it the second time around, I was going to be part of it. And that's a decision she took, and she knows best, and I did express the fact that I was connected to the script right from the beginning so there was an emotional attachment, there was a professional loss, there was at a personal level, also it was part of the larger fight that I've been in, in the sense of this whole thing about freedom of expression, this cultural policing that's been happening for long. So at many levels there were regrets of not being able to be part of it.
At many levels I have regrets of not being able to be part of Water
Because of the movies and particularly Fire, she got death threats, effigies were burned of her in the streets, I mean it was full-on at the time. I still really remember that. Were you ever afraid for your safety, having played such a large role in the previous two movies?
Yes, there were threats and in fact, during Fire, when that whole attack happened, I had a policeman outside my door, in the hotel and after that, at home in Delhi. So there was a bit of a tension. In fact my parents always say that, look Deepa Mehta is going to go back to Toronto, she has a big house, there are people protecting it. You live on your own, stop being foolish. But then my parents are the ones who, in a way, taught me to speak out and I tell them, 'too late, now you've taught me all the wrong things, I'm sticking to it'. So I don't think the threats were bad enough to worry too much and I think when you kind of take a stand or jump into fire, then you go all the way, and no pun intended. ( For More: http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/features/2008/05/05/3843/ )
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